Chief Operations Officer Kevin Barnhardt

The County of Berks Chief Operations Officer Kevin Barnhardt talks about the role that he and his team play in day-to-day operations of County Government. With Controller Joe Rudderow.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello, Joe Ruttero, your county controller, once again for County Connections. Um, I wanted to uh get back in front of you and talk a little bit more about local government, and today uh I am uh blessed to have with me uh Kevin Barnhart. He is our um chief operations officer for the county of Berks. Kevin, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Hello, Joe, and hello viewers.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Yay, it's great to have you back, huh? Thanks. I'd like the intro. Yeah, yeah. That was some really good uh good footage of Berks County. Yep, yep, that's uh that's what I've been told. It's uh it's been an oldie but goody, huh?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Good, good. Glad to have you back, Kevin. Um and and you know, uh we'll kind of go through some basic questions that I have uh to share with you know the the with the viewers to make sure that that they kind of know um what your new role is. It's not so new anymore, but maybe new to the viewers. But um but uh the the chief operations office, I guess we would call it that, right? Yes. Um so that that was established when?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

So it was actually went through different iterations. So for decades there was no chief administrative officer or county administrator for many, many years. And then there was a movement, I think in the late 80s, early 90s, that a county of our size, a third clan, third class county with the size budget, there really should be somebody overseeing the daily operations and functions of the of the department. So uh the first one that I was aware of when I became a commissioner back in 2008 was Bill Dennis. He was the county administrator, uh, basically doing the role that we're doing now. And then it was uh Bill Dennis left, we hired Carl Staples, uh Ken Borkey, Carl Gefkin, who was the city uh uh he ran the city for a number of years, and then Ron Seaman. So we had a several iterations of where we are today, but there were some title changes, some responsibility changes. Uh but when Ron declared his retirement, uh they went out to a uh a recruiting firm. The recruiting firm said really, in order to attract somebody to the position, uh chief administrative officer really didn't sound right, so they created chief operations officer. So the firm came to the Board of Commissioners and said Chief Operations Officer really has the ability to attract uh the quality candidates for the position. Uh so that was established in the end of uh uh 20, yeah, January of 22, December of 22 for 23. So the board met and they decided on revamping the position, and at that time, when Ron was there, there was a a deputy position, uh deputy administrator position, uh, and she chose to continue her career in uh community and economic development for the county. So then the board decided to not just have me serve as a chief operations officer, but also hire a deputy who is Larry Medallia, my my right-hand man. So I came from county government from the commissioner side, and Larry, of course, came from the Register Will side from the real officer side.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

So um the earliest date would you say would when you you came into office, I think um, 2008. 2008. So was there a CAO? Yes, there wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Bill Dennis was, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

And then how much further back would you say, you know, I think there was at least one person before him.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

I forget exactly who that because I wasn't there, but I think there was one prior to Bill Dennis.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

So probably roughly around 2,000 at the time. I would say county started to look at the need for a position.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

And when you you look at the expanse of the county, I mean, there's 45 departments, we are responsible for 24 of them. Uh you've got almost a $700 million budget, 2,000 employees, it's a magnitude of of scale. Uh that three elected commissioners certainly oversee us and give us direction, but that's an awful lot, even for three people uh to to administer. So they again divide it out amongst folks like myself, human resource officer, solicitor, and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Did did the um the focus also shift it then, right? So because if it was a C C AO, right? Administrative, right. So it was more on the administrative.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah, we became much more heavily involved in operations in uh because we have a multitude of projects going on, which we can talk about a little bit later. But really uh meeting directly with our department heads, we strive every week to meet with 24 of our department heads, either by phone, by email, by direct contact, uh, in-person meetings, virtual meetings. We try to touch point. So we have a list every week, and Friday morning we say, okay, there's three missing. Let's get on the phone and let's call them. Just so they just so they know we're there. We're not directing them, we're not overseeing their operation, but we're saying what can we do to support you, whether it's getting a bill paid, whether it's uh uh a purchasing issue or a budget issue or a legal issue, we're there almost more likely liaison, uh, support them if they're transitioning with with staff. If a department head leaves, then we're part of that process to recruit and interview and replace the department head. So there's an awful lot of moving parts in the operation.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

So, in terms of how big is your your staff, it's a relatively small staff. Yes, small but mighty.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

So it's myself, Larry Medalli, who is my deputy, and I couldn't do this work without him. I mean, there is a magnitude of scale. It's it's incomparable the amount of work that comes across our desks in a week's time. Uh the Chief Clerk, Jesse Blauser, who is also my executive assistant, she is part of our team. Uh Brittany Frankowski, who is Larry's executive assistant, she also does the fiscal component of our department, the commissioners, and the economic development. And then we have Jonathan Heisman, who is our public relations officer. So they report directly to Larry and I.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

And then and then you have the department heads. Um They report up to us. They report up to you guys.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Not the row officers. Right, right. And not the courts. I'm sure you've explained that in some of your your uh meetings that you've had here. So the courts are separate, independent. Uh the commissioners obviously approve their budgets, but they don't really have uh day-to-day authority over the court side, court administration, the courts, and that sort of thing, and and neither the row officers, who of course say approve the budget, but of course, in your position, uh you control the manner of your department, hiring, firing, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Right. And and of course, you know, the controller's office um is not is not the uh fiscal manager of the county. That that lies with the commissioners. Uh but we do have some fiscal uh supervisory supervisory excuse me um role in the sense of you know paying the bills and uh auditing, of course, and and uh the accounting side of things where it's really important that um you know our team gets the information we need and and work and collaborate.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

In a timely manner.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

In a timely manner. And we collaborate with uh with the budget department and stuff because uh uh the the county finances are important. Um and uh, you know, I often uh will say, you know, that when people hear the word controller, they think, oh, well you're gonna control. I said, listen, uh limited. There's limited. Uh I mean um uh the role of the controller is certainly being spelled out in county code and it defines exactly what the authorities are. Sure. Um but I think the public sometimes thinks, you know, if if there's uh a budget increase, the why didn't you control that? Well, that's not my that's not my decision.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Plus you have a large area to cover, too, with audits and with uh with the everything else you do with the the audits and the not just the department audits, but the actual uh county audit, which we discussed about the detention center that we're gonna reopen as a regional asset, uh how that's gonna be overseen, and we've got a lot of safeguards in the financial, the fiscal part of that.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Right, and how that will get booked into the general ledger and and everything else. Um speaking of that, you know, it it looks like that project is really coming along well.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

We've been at it for well over two years. Uh intensely the last year and a half, we've had meetings every month with three counties, uh us, Lehigh, and Dolphin County for a period of time. And then Lackawanna joined us uh late summer, early fall, because the state went to them and said, Can you replicate what Berks County is trying to do in southeastern Pennsylvania? And they say quite honestly, we don't have the contiguous counties with the number of kids in detention that would really warrant setting up something like Berks. And then along came Delaware County. So now uh we have a five-member uh regional detention center that's gonna be housed here in Berks County uh for those kids who really are safer incarcerated and the streets are safer. So it's a long time coming, but we're really pleased that we can move forward with that.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Is is uh five the magic number?

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Five five four was the magic number, because uh we're only gonna limit it to forty beds. Uh our average, our average population of of delinquents is about six. Uh most of the other ones are between six and eight. So we figure forty is the model. So adding a fifth county will lower the bed utilization by each county from ten to eight, which still, in our grand scheme of things, will probably match for us. So we really want to have the beds available for the five counties. If we're able to per diem one out to another county like a smaller Lebanon or Schuylkill County, who can't afford their own detention center, then we're going to do that.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Well, and and you know, when you look at that number and you think, well, that doesn't sound like a lot, but these are some real troubled. Yes. There I guess I'll just say there's some real delicate situations there, and and I think you elegant el eloquently stated that I don't I don't want to get too much into numbers because it loses people, but we probably have about six hundred kids under supervision.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Lehigh has about four hundred and thirty kids under supervision. So there's a thousand kids among two counties, and now there's two counties, ten of the kids are in detention. So think about the numbers. It's not all kids. I mean, it's the kids are out on ankle bracelets, they're at uh after school programs, they they do check-ins with their probation officers, they're monitored.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

And these are the less risky offenders. Who we're really looking to incarcerate and need to incarcerate are the gun violent, uh, the rapists, the gun violence, the ag assault, the ones that really need to uh be there until they have their their hearing and they're sentenced or whatever happens to them along the road. It's a temporary stop for them. It's not basically like a jail would be, uh it's really a temporary place until they're placed.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah. Well, it's it's certainly I know that uh you've been working on it for a couple years. I know early on um in my term, first term here, uh the the need that the DA and the commissioners identified as, you know, we need to do something. And so um, but it's great. I saw the news that you know you you got a fifth. I thought that was great. And you know, anytime county can share those expenses, you know, there's basic base expenses that everyone will contribute to. So that I think lightens the burden to Burks County taxpayers a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, just adding the fifth lowers the annual cost $400,000 per member.

unknown 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

That's huge in a county budget. Right. Yeah, so that's awesome. Um so how long have you worked in the county then?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

It started in 2008 as a commissioner and worked as a commissioner for 15 years. Uh when Ron announced his retirement, I gave it some thought and I thought, well, life could continue with the county, but maybe in a different role. Uh I've always been accused, and probably rightfully so, of being a micromanager of sorts. Uh, and I really I like to get into the weeds. I really like to be have that list of 15 things when I walk in the in and to get 10 or 10 of them most of them done, but try to get that checklist done. Uh I loved being a commissioner, don't get me wrong, being with the people, being with the public, uh trying to make improvements in the county, which I think we had amazing improvements in the county over the 15 years I was there. But I I took a a lateral step or a side step and thought I really can give back some of my experience and talent and my drive to get things accomplished. So always had a good rapport with the department heads and knew a lot about various departments serving on a lot of boards uh and and really just wanted to dive in head first.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Well, so that that prior experience as a commissioner really is a solid foundation to what you're doing now. So you the the learning curve, I would think, on day one. Although I remember uh hearing that it was like drinking out of a fire hose, I think might have been if if you didn't say it, Larry might have said it.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Um but realized we set the bar high. I think we set expectations that look, we're we're a team, there's two of us with our support team, but I'll tell you what, we're gonna we're gonna get things done and we're gonna drive this. You know, we're gonna sit in front of the board because they have priorities, they have initiatives they want to accomplish, and we want to make sure they're that we're carrying out their priorities, and that's what we do day in and day out.

unknown 13:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

On top of emergencies and things that come up.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

And and your team answers directly to the board of commissioners.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

We answered we are literally steps away from the commissioner's office. I left 13 and just went to a different office on 13. So we're in the same suite, we're right there, we're engaged with them every day. Uh we do a door-to-door diplomacy, we need something done, we knock on three doors and we ask for forgiveness. Before we may have already done it, then we ask for forgiveness. Uh-huh. But it's a great, I'll tell you what, it's an amazing group of uh commissioners. They are just amazing to work for and work with. Uh they're really into the team spirit. And row off I I have, again, since 2008, I have not experienced the the teamwork from the courts, the row officers, and the commissioners that I've that I've it's great. It's really great. Everyone's everyone's pitching in and doing the work.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Yeah, well, then and you know, the the taxpayers should be relieved to know that, right? County government is trying its very best to be efficient. We saw that.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

I always I always say people think government employees are lazy. They just don't understand the magnitude of what the county covers, what the county employees do. They're 98, 98 percent are fantastic employees, dedicated. I can tell you they're not there for the money. They're there because they want to give back, they're there to serve the constituents of Berks County, they're doing a phenomenal job.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

And and I I agree that, you know, since I've been in, um, I see hardworking, caring uh individuals at all different departments. Uh and I think that's that's uh, you know, people want to people want to be led and galvan, you know, that you galvanize that spirit around what you're doing and believe in the cause. Uh and I think that that certainly um uh is is certainly um uh something that the Board of Commissioners uh back when you were on the board, uh, you know, that's where that starts. I mean that doesn't that starts back and starts to kind of ferment and develop. And so when you look back over your 15 years and now you look at where we are today, um, you know, your role, though different today than than when you were commissioner, um you kind of uh seed seeded the field in a way that's right that we are where we are, you know. I think that um sometimes that can get lost. I it takes time to build an organization. It it is um not always easy, there's a lot of personalities. Um but when you have a clear vision uh and you have good leadership, people will follow. And I think you see that in the county today. Yeah, you're spot on.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

I when we made when the commissioners made the announcement and Larry and I were introduced, I said, I have a quiz for you folks. I was involved in all but two department head hirings, so can you name the two people? So I mean that you're it it goes back that far that you know that people you're part of their interview process, part of their their maturity process, and they're still with us today. It's just an amazing thing. So I think most people thought, well, not surprised that you received the position because of your your knowledge and your knowledge base of the county government. And again, Larry comes with the strength from the court side and his strength from the row officer side. So again, we have meetings every other month with the row officers, a lot of engagement back and forth, sharing information with the row officers. And we meet with the courts once a month and sit down and really coordinate with each other.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

So in terms of the courts and I and and the um the PJ, the president judge, really is the the highest position on the court side at the county level, correct?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yes, she is.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah. Judge Teresa Johnson. Yeah, and you you the com your team and the commissioners work pretty closely with the case. Amazingly well, yeah, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

There's there's been times in the past where depending on the president-judge, it wasn't exactly that great, but this is this is the best, this is the best president judge I've worked with, or none. She's understanding, she's appreciative, she sits down, she she's smart. Yeah. She sits down and she just looks at things and says, here's what I want to get done, how do we get it done?

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

No nonsense, no wavering. It's like, I know what we need to done get done on this side of the building, here's what I want to get done.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Which is totally different than what it's a it's a totally different, you know, need than what you're doing on the county side.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

She's no nonsense and I like that. Just cut to the chase and tell me what you need.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

But I mean, even even the needs of the courts are so much different than the needs of the county offices in the sense, I mean, obviously there's some overlap and stuff, but um, you know, the whole judicial system and of course um, you know, their uh interaction with the state, I guess, to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah, they respond up to AOPC at the state level.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Uh but she's phenomenal in one way that where they might be asking for a position, but they're also looking at maybe eliminating a position. So it's never adding headcount. It's all about, hey, I think this would be more efficient if we if we had this position and I can zero fund this one. That's what you want to hear. When you walk into a room and say, oh, they want to they want to hire people, well, there's a caveat. We want to eliminate this position, which is not necessary. No one's in it, but we're not gonna backfill it, we're not gonna replace that person.

unknown 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

And you know, sometimes when when somebody comes in, they need a little bit of time to kind of figure that structure out and to see what they think might be the best structure. And that's what's like moving chess pieces, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yep, and that's I think what you experience, but also we have new department heads come in and the board says, Look, tell us what your first 90, 120 days look like. And the answer should be, let me sit back and evaluate my department. Right. Give me the ability to see what I have, what I'm working with, and then I report back to you in three or four months and say, I'd like to make these adjustments.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

And more often than not, go ahead and do it.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah, and and that's that's just a good good approach because um and it's a big ship, you know. It takes it takes a bit to turn a big ship. Uh, you know, a little ship is easier to maneuver.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

The little stuff gets us caught up sometimes too. They spend a lot of time on the little stuff when you're trying to accomplish the big things.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Well, um, what are some of the um uh goals that you, you know, the COO team's looking to accomplish if you want to share with the viewers?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Sure. Um So we always try to make sure we're living within our means, within our budget. We work almost daily with Laura Jones, our chief financial officer. We make sure that whatever we're projecting is prudent and it's not gonna harm the taxpayers in any way, shape, or form. Uh, but we also look at our infrastructure. We look at not just the infrastructure personnel. Uh one of the charges that the commissioners gave us is to have succession planning where they wanted a deputy for every department. And I'd say when Larry and I started, we were maybe six deputies short. As of this summer, we're gonna have all those positions filled, created and filled, which may seem like an increase, but generally we've been hiring or promoting from within. But if someone is out for an extended period of time for leave or they decide are gonna move on somewhere else, uh we've got a a potential replacement. Uh we want we really, really encourage in in promoting from within. Uh we've had mixed experience with hiring people from outside, but it really works for us. So that's one of the things we work on. Uh we work on a lot of infrastructure projects with our facilities team. Uh Ag Center is one of them in particular. The first phase was completed, which uh upgraded the conservation district. Now we're moving into the second phase, which is the building facing County Welfare Road, everyone sees. That's gonna be completely remodeled over the next year and a half. Uh the Burks Annex, which houses our shelter right now, the fourth floor is receiving all new windows. And we're gonna be moving an LTSR and a long-term sustained residential for folks with mental health issues uh coming out of the criminal justice system. Uh we have Camp Joy, which is housing uh uh prior offenders, uh, those who need a leg up. Uh we're replacing the bridge going back there. Uh and then we have downtown issues. We have issues with the courthouse we're addressing now. Uh we're doing a space study allocation for the services center. So there's a lot of moving parts, and then there's course the parks department has old barns and old structures that really need renovation.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Right. I mean the the the county, there's some aging buildings. Oh, yes. It's always a Yeah. South campus, you didn't mention that, and that that's kind of the bright spot, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

That's been newly renovated and the redevelopment authority and we fully occupied it in June of last year. So we have six departments there, including uh elections equipment and archives is in the back end of the building if you drive down Y Missing Avenue. Uh now Buckman has a found a home, finally a red-headed stepchild of the county. Right. Probably had six places in the last 20 years, but they love it there. It's amazing. They use our multi-purpose room. They've got almost 10,000 square feet of their own to collect the books and sort through them. So I think that sale's coming up in July.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah. So that building's been renovated, and then of course you're renovating the Ag Center. Yes. Um so check check, right? Um the Services Center, although it it looks, you know, it it it's it looks like a newer building. It's got its age too, what, 94 that was?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah, it was opened in 94 or 94, yes, but it's it's starting to show its age in some.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

And then you've got the the court the courthouse, it's about a hundred years.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Historic building from the 1930s, but uh it's got hundred-year-old mechanicals.

unknown 23:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

So we have a tiger by the tail there. We're gonna try to figure out over the next uh couple years.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yeah. Well, um certainly that's I'm sure that takes a lot of your time as well. Um those buildings are certainly important for the execution of what the county needs to do at all levels, and uh and that's a that's a big undertaking.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

And our department is closely intertwined with human resources and our legal department. Almost everything we touch is between the three county, you know, it's a personnel, it's a hiring decision. We're involved in it for the most part at the at the deputy and the department head level, and then of course, legal, pretty much everything that comes through Christine Sadler's department or our department touches each other when we're dealing with with uh affairs of the county.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Well, and in in today's day and age, you know, um you it you're smart to have the uh the solicitor weigh in. Yes. Um just just to make sure uh that's that's a great um it's great to have that legal service available and that support and you know that helps to protect the taxpayers. Uh I I know uh she's a very busy, yes. Very busy woman. So um but the um now does the COO team have a website or anything?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Or do you think that's Well we are on the county general website. We do have a mission statement on there, uh if you want me to read it, because I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

No, no, that's all right. It's it's just good to lead by example. But you don't Yeah, there's not necessarily a drop-down box that talks about the you're more of the behind the scenes. We're the stage crew. We're the ones that make sure the wheels don't fall off the wagon.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Right, right. So um and um We're not public facing as as much as you know elected officials, especially the commissioners. They're the external. They're the the people, they're the external folks, they're the priorities, they're the goals and objectives, and we carry out the mission of the of the Board of Commissioners.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, so um the um the role has has really been an important role to the county. Um not that the CAO wasn't important in the past, uh, but it it just it sounds like it's uh you're it's more we we even to this day under we can't believe how Ron Seaman was able to do everything he did.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

One man with one assistant, he was phenomenal. He was just he was Superman.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

And then we come in with a larger team and it's like it just exponentially grew from there because the expectation is the board obviously hired additional staff and expected more and we're delivering more. So it's no no offense to anyone prior to us, especially Ron Seaman, great guy.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

It's like his wealth of knowledge was probably 40 some years in county government. He knew ever he knew where all the bodies were buried. Right. Uh so we come in and we're just we're picking up a lot of things that were carried through from Ron, and then also we're picking up an awful lot of new projects like the Ag Center, like the Bulls. Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

So some of that hadn't reached the point where it was. It needed the attention that it needs today. And so therefore now you've got two or three things that are needing your attention that they it hadn't developed to that yet.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

It would have eventually, you know, but the repurposing, the remodeling of the detention center, that's front and center. That wasn't even thought about when Ron retired. Uh the boiler plant deactivation at the North Campus, taking everyone off the boiler plant and the number four diesel fuel and putting everybody on natural gas. That wasn't even contemplated prior to us coming into office. So now that's a facilities and operation engineering thing, but we're still there supporting them as as a supporting uh entity. Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Well, uh I know you have um uh you know uh facilities reports to you guys. I know that's a that's a big department. Election services. Election services is another one.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, it's uh election coming up May 19th, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

We're there to support them in every way we can. Great group of people. They're they really have it, they really have it going now. They're really smooth sailing right now. Uh Area Agency on Aging.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Uh mental health developmental disabilities. Uh we have planning, agriculture, and uh workforce development under Pam Menute, yeah, but they then report, you know, Pam reports to us. Assessment, the group that uh assesses your property for taxation purposes, uh jail, jail system, library, veterans affairs, public defender.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

People find that a little unique department that's I don't want to interrupt you, but I'm gonna have to have you back because it's hard to believe we're out of time already.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

No.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

And uh and you're just getting started on your list. But uh I'm glad that we had a chance to to talk a little bit and and you know share with the viewer and give them a little bit more insight on what the COO team is. Be happy to come back. And and um, you know, there's there's a ton of stuff going on, and I do appreciate you. Um you're a very busy person, so I do appreciate you carving out a little time to come down and and talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Thanks for getting me out of the office. Thanks for getting you out of the office.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Um so with that, I just want to go ahead and wrap up and I want to thank the viewers for joining us today for County Connections. Uh until next time, your county controller, Joe Ruttero. Thank you.