Berks County Connection Podcast
Learn how Berks County government works with the County Commissioners, County Controller, and other row officers.
Berks County Connection Podcast
Chief Information Officer Tim Smith
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Berks County Controller Joe Rudderow chats with Chief Information Officer Tim Smith about his department.
Welcome back. I am County Controller Joe Ruttero and here for another episode of County Connections. It's always great to be back in front of the viewers and to share with the viewers about government, especially local government at the county level. Today I am joined by Tim Smith. He is our CIO for the County of Burks. And Tim, welcome.
SPEAKER_00Well, thanks, Joe. Thanks for having me. It's certainly going to be an exciting one today, getting to talk about uh CIO and and uh computers. So I hope hopefully we'll keep your viewers entertained.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm sure that they're gonna learn a lot, right?
SPEAKER_00So uh I I hope so.
SPEAKER_01You know, uh the the um uh IS department or information systems is as the department's known in the county, and Tim is is the the head of that department. And you know, just to take a minute to talk about, you know, how we've progressed uh in the computer age, right? I mean, you think about uh, you know, some of the progressions, was it always considered information systems, or you know, it was the computer department, and then it went to anyone.
SPEAKER_00Sure, typically, typically it started out a lot of a lot of places are called MIS, I mean management of information systems, or or even one organization I was in in in the late 90s, uh Data Processing Department. So to come to uh information systems, or uh sometimes you'll hear uh OIT, Office of Information Technology, uh different ones like that. But yes, certainly it it's come a long way. And here, you know, at the County of Berks, I don't I'm not really sure what year it started, but um you know I would imagine uh late 80s or early 90s.
SPEAKER_01I would think, right?
SPEAKER_00You know, I would you would hope at that time. Uh you know, and back then you were typically an offshoot of uh human resources or or the mailroom. That's that's where IT would start, because no nobody where where do we put these things, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, so I mean I can remember being uh many, many, many years ago uh when I was uh a kid and and uh was uh uh learning my schooling, uh especially if I needed some extra help at home. Uh mom would have these big IBM cards that they would write, you know, she would write stuff, so if it was vocabulary or whatever. And and so we're going back, you know, um in the late 60s, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm not that old, so I don't remember those acts.
SPEAKER_01So I'm sure. Well that's the way it was back then, right? So we've gone from that, and then you look at the computer age, what I would say in the 80s, when when I guess really what, microprocessors really started to come onto the scene and you got away from these big rooms filled with this computing equipment.
SPEAKER_00Sure, and you're getting closer to the personal computer, which they didn't always think, you know. Some people said that they're there nobody's ever gonna have a personal computer in in their home, let alone nowadays when the it's on your phone in your pocket, you know.
SPEAKER_01Isn't that it is a per it is a handheld computer, right? I mean for the most part.
SPEAKER_00And where do we go from here? Uh you know, uh uh implanted chips? I I I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I really talk about that on a different topic on a different day. But you know, it's interesting. Uh I can remember in the in the late 80s um uh my dad having a tandy. Okay, sure. Uh Radio Shack's tandy uh version of their first computer, uh the word processor, the the the big uh pin pin printers, right? That uh that you know uh the Oki Data Um information uh in the 90s where you know green bar paper. Yeah, all of that. And and to all that stuff is is a thing of the past.
SPEAKER_00Now you are starting to make me feel old. But uh yeah, yeah, I started I started my career uh in the field uh in the late 90s. Um I I actually I worked for a home health care agency. Then I worked for a Fortune 500 company. It was a little fresh in the 90s there, so it was yeah, if you knew a little bit about computers, it was it was easier to get in. Um then the dot com crashed uh around 2000, 2001, so that took a lot of people back. But from then, from from there, I went, I I took a different route. I I I went to a school district, so I worked worked in education. Um then I I worked for a nonprofit and experimental organic farm. Uh I tell people I tell people, well, I worked on a farm, and they're like, Well, you're in the computers. I said, Well, we had a couple on there. So, but we had scientists and that sort of thing who uh they had to do their research, so we had to provide the technology for them there. And by this time, it was you know sometime in the early 2000s. Of course, you had a website, uh, a lot of your social media was just coming out, so we wanted to get the message out that way, especially doing donors and that uh sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01But not to further date myself, and how old am I, really? Right? We can we can ask that question. How old are you, right? Um I can I certainly remember uh the computer in our business and uh and uh accidentally hitting something and hearing the modem, and I didn't even know what it was. I'm like, oh my gosh, what what the heck is that? And it was because I accidentally clicked on AOL, you know. Oh wow, you got mailed. We went through all of that in the 90s into the you know 2000s, and of course, um really I guess with the in uh the um uh invention or with the release of the iPhone, you know. I mean you think about Well, yeah, that was big.
SPEAKER_00I mean, back when, you know, you you had a Mac when I went to school, you were trained both on uh Mac and PCs, but the Mac market was really going uh downhill, so the class after me, they didn't even do Macs anymore. And then um the iMac came out, I don't know if you remember, they would come out different colors and uh they'd sell to us a lot of school districts, but then it really wasn't until the iPhone where Apple really made its recovery, and now uh everybody's you know got an iPhone except for me. I have an Android. I have one of each.
SPEAKER_01So well, and it's funny because when I when you know when we talk about things in our family, and you know, uh uh you know, everyone believes that you know um cell phones have existed forever, which they haven't, and the iPhone has existed forever, which it hasn't, you know.
SPEAKER_00So you might have had a Palm Pilot or a Blackberry before that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That was the big tech stuff, right? Uh you have a Blackberry, you're like, ooh. So um it it's it is interesting, I and I think it's safe to say that somewhere probably in the uh uh middle 90s, uh early 2000s, where I think information systems really started to to um kind of uh become what it is today, right? And and and so we say, well, you know, one of my questions I like to ask guests is, you know, the history of it, and I you've kind of touched on it. Well, we know it probably wasn't before 1980 that they had something because we really didn't have stuff back then. Sure. And I think that it's uh, you know, where your department has evolved to today, just probably since you've been at the county, it's been night and day, right?
SPEAKER_00So, you know, we talked about when when the the department you start having to recognize it as a department in the 80s and 90s, uh coming out of like HR or or or or the mail room. So, you know, where it's its own department, the technology. Uh and for years, you know, whether you'd be tech supporter, you're just running the computers for the system or or creating the technology that's leading business, um, you have that, but now a lot of it is uh data. We're we're we're stewards of the data. So the job keeps changing. We're still an information system, but now we're responsible for data. And and and if you if you read some articles, they say data is now uh you know the highest price commodity you know compared to oil and that sort of thing. It's actually worth more than oil now, is is data. Well, and I and the cost to protect that, right?
SPEAKER_01And I and we'll touch on that in a little bit because you know, uh, but you're right. I mean uh uh information is very powerful, and of course, you know, the the you have to be a good steward of that information and protect it. Right. Um and the county certainly takes that role very seriously. Um and and you know, um uh before we get too far into that part of it, I'm gonna hit you with some of the basics. So absolutely you're the CIO, so the chief information officer for our viewers. Yep. Um and and so CIO, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um how long have you been in that role? Okay. Well, actually it's just it's been about two years. My um as the CIO. I started with the county uh February 9th uh of 2011. So I just on well just read two days ago, yesterday, I I hit my 15-year anniversary with the county. Congratulations. Well thank you. Yeah I was I started as the enterprise manager, and the enterprise manager really um takes care of the infrastructure. So the team I managed would be at the time was a help desk who answer answers phones, the people who go out in the field to fix computers, you know, something's wrong. We we have a pretty big and and we'll get into the size of the county infrastructure, but we have a lot of computers out there, so the people to go out and actually fix them or people call uh on a daily basis. And um we had pretty big uh server infrastructure uh as well, and I would help to manage all that. So you figure all operations infrastructure, that's that's where I was for 13 years. Um then you know a position opened up and I became uh how our structure is. I became the deputy CEO, or CIO, excuse me. Deputy CIO. I was the deputy CIO for about a cup of coffee, and my boss uh moved on to somewhere else, and the CIO position opened up there. So it was a pretty step. 13 years in one position, uh and within a month and a half, you know, uh, lead in the department. So it was a bit of a transition. Uh my my former CIO, Justin, he's a real fan fantastic. I just wish I would have more time with him in that role, but he's still a mentor to me. We still talk and I still come up and say, Well, my what do I do here? Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, I I know that um uh well let's and speaking of that, so you're the CIO. Do you have a deputy at this point? I do.
SPEAKER_00Um and and we've had, you know, really just about the since the time I've been with the county, there's always been uh deputy CIO role. And Shelly O'Neill, she's my she's my deputy, and uh really I couldn't do the day-to-day without her.
SPEAKER_01Very important part of your team.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And and and the commissioners are big on succession too. So we try to put people in the position where she's my deputy, sh should in fact that you know I I move on or you know, someday retire, you she would be able to move uh into that role. And she has a succession plan behind her who would come into that role and that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So uh how big is the department, roughly speaking?
SPEAKER_00Uh um fully staffed, we're uh at about 40 people. Um it runs the gamut. I I I expressed it before I was the enterprise manager, so I always like to talk about those guys. We used to have a traditional uh three-tiered environment. So you had a tier one would be your help desk, tier two would be your little bit uh uh more skilled technicians, and those are the ones who would go out in the field and do the uh the you know things like that desk side versus just answering the phone and resetting a password or something like that. And then we had our tier three, which includes uh, you know, people who handle all the storage or um they handle all the new systems or servers, uh, you know, for people they they all they they're they're high level, typically came up through the ranks, so they know those other jobs well enough, but they're then at this point they have specialties where they're doing higher end. So we had a we had a three-tiered system. At some point during uh my time at the county, we we combined one and two um into into just enterprise support, and what it you know it gave us several benefits. The people who normally took calls, well, they learned more of the environment being out there. The the people and the people who were um you're you're a little bit higher level, you're not taking money putting them out there because they could eliminate more problems uh first level than So they're getting more on hands practical experience. It helped on it helped on both ends. So that's yeah, that's been pretty successful for us. Uh besides those, those tiers, we we we are most recent, um, and and it uh uh it has people who are specialized, but we have our own security team. We we have a chief information security officer.
SPEAKER_01So now that's let's talk a little bit about that. So is that fairly new in terms of identifying the role that specifically, right?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'm sure relatively in the technology world, it's it's it's relatively newer. Uh as far as counties go, we're one of only maybe three or four counties uh in the Commonwealth that had that position. So thankfully we we get great support from our commissioners for when we need to fill these roles. And we're a class three county, you know, we have almost 500,000, what 450,000 residents? You know, we we cover a lot. Uh and and and it's really great to have their support and recognize that, hey, when we need these tools to protect uh the internal folks that protect their data as well as protect the data of the constituents, it's great to have their support.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And and uh how big uh we'll just take a little dip, but how big is the is it the CISO? Is that the Yeah.
SPEAKER_00CISO they typically.
SPEAKER_01And and how big uh of a team do you have dedicated to that? So you have a a director per se?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, if you include him, I think six people. Six people. You know, you so you have him, you have like another person that focuses uh a whole lot on policy. You have uh we what we took is one of our um systems engineers who we all we already had in place. So we put him in that role. Now he's a system engineer, but now his main focus is on security, right? So he's gonna look at that aspect of it, not just the typical systems engineer building and maintaining stuff. He's he his focus is security. Um and we have uh our storage person, we have another person that handles all like uh like uh our email and our and and a lot of our cloud infrastructure. And then we even put one of the support technicians, like we talked about before, put one of them there. So you have first of all, a lot of times we're when we're we we we identify a problem or a vulnerability, um, you know, we had 2,000 computers, well it's maybe it's only affecting 50. Well, no, trying to get to those 50 can you're you're great, handle in 1950. We got automated, but these 50 missed it. Why? So that person at that level can go to the individual ones and uh and and resolve the issues that are.
SPEAKER_01Well, and and and there's absolutely no um shortage of bad actors out there, right?
SPEAKER_00Certainly not. Yeah, that is uh it's a huge technology.
SPEAKER_0124-7 protecting your your infrastructure, right?
SPEAKER_00That's and not only do we have those folks, we have services that monitor our you know things 24-7 and uh you know uh uh other uh applications that are constantly monitoring data. We're we're you know certainly we're 24 or 7 operations with uh with handling the you know 911 Senator Berksheim or uh you know any other service department, any other 24-hour operation. But even if we weren't, that data, you know, is still has a chance of being exposed 24 hours. So we have monitoring services. You know.
SPEAKER_01Well, what I really like, uh one of the things that you guys do do is you do a very good job, in my opinion, of helping to educate the workforce. You know, you have different um you know, you know, messages you put out, be careful about this, don't click on that. Uh all of that's helpful not only for protecting the county's data, but you know, personally you're gonna you're gonna learn that lesson, you're gonna go home and you're gonna say, Well, what's this email? What's it says I have a receipt? And you're you're like, oh wait, they say it worked, don't touch that. You know, hopateta, hopateta. And and so um I I see that you know the county is very proactive in trying to get the message out because there are so many different ways that people can try to um infiltrate the system, if you will, uh, and some of it is fairly um simple, right? You would think like, you know, well, it kind of looks like somebody I'm used to dealing with, but you know, you you you teach us techniques on how to determine is that something that um, you know, uh is safe to click on or not. And and of course I love it. If in doubt, send it over to you guys, we'll take a peek at it, right?
SPEAKER_00Which would you have that advantage of at work? You know, you you touched on training and really honestly, you know, we're always looking for new ways and and better ways to to train. You know, technology, of course, is always changing. Um so you know, we're keeping up with how how are how are you, you know, as as an it's not your job supposed to keep up with that sort of thing. And you got a phone and you got email and everything else. We so we we try to educate you not only on the on the work front, but also on the home front to be more vigilant with the amount of uh bad actors that are out there. Because they're not just targeting companies, sure. You know, they're gonna get more of that. But they're targeting they're targeting everybody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it it's definitely um something that uh obviously there's there's a it it's it's there's enough out there to warrant having its own dedicated person and small team to be out there protecting uh and don't get me wrong, we say in our department security is every bus everybody's business, but at the same point having that team there is is is really helpful. Yeah, that's great. Um now I did notice um and and there's uh and I guess we can kind of quickly go over this within your department. Obviously, we've talked about you, your um deputy, we've talked about the security team. You had and you mentioned enterprise, uh you were an enterprise manager. So walk us through just some of the other roles that you have in the county um for the viewers, so the viewers under have a better understanding. Because I think each of them, if my if if I understand it correctly, um has very unique and specific duties to why they're needed, right? Sure. So if you don't mind, just kind of uh walking through at a high level some of those um other roles.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So you know, we we we talked about uh again, always my favorite enterprise support technicians because I haven't uh you know had them for the longest. But uh so uh we we talked about those folks, the end of course the enterprise manager who's who's now in charge of Megan Leisher. Um and then uh we talked a little bit about people who do you know storage um and specific jobs for you know systems engineers. Uh we have we have a couple network engineers for sure. We we need those for all our our in-house.
SPEAKER_01Is that more for the connectivity type system? Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so yeah, I mean uh typically if you're at work and okay, we can't get on the internet, we can't get here. We're calling we're calling them, or you can't get the internet. You need more than the wizard, right?
SPEAKER_01The next next thing through a wizard. You need to call the help desk and get a person to help.
SPEAKER_00We we have a couple of uh in-house developers. Um we have our own uh GIS team, which which is great. Anything to do with uh mapping imagery uh across the county, like they really um you know help the the GIS department really helps out or you a lot of other departments use uh uh GIS. So you have uh 911 emergency management um, you know, for for their mapping, uh planning, assessment. Uh so you name it a acronym GIS.
SPEAKER_01Is that an easy thing to share?
SPEAKER_00Geographical information systems.
SPEAKER_01So I I'm familiar with the word using it, you know, but I really wasn't sure exactly what uh the it was an acronym.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my guy Brad. I make sure I don't mess up his acronym. But um uh so let's see, what what didn't I tell you first about Bruce? Yeah, or we have our own in-house Oracle uh ERP team, the Enterprise uh Resource Program. You know, so what is an SQL um what is that considerable?
SPEAKER_01Developer or data? The word the what's the what's that?
SPEAKER_00Well they call it SQL. It's uh I always joke with my guy, it's a simple query language, but it's not simple, it's system. So they handle databases at a real high level. Uh you know, for some folks out there they might think, well, I used Access every once in a while way back when, and that's uh more of an easier uh uh end user database. These are high-end databases with a lot of different functions that uh control everything.
SPEAKER_01So does that have anything to do with the uh system being like um character-based versus window-based or anything with does that server piece?
SPEAKER_00Um not necessarily. You know, we we have SQL servers as well as application servers.
SPEAKER_01Okay. But I'm just thinking in terms of what little what little I know and you know, years ago, uh Unix and some of these character-based, you know, um uh computing systems, and then you know, when Windows came out and the you know, some of these companies were overlaying Windows on top of other technology, but you know, that's how you get the dashboards and the graphs and all that that stuff, which is it makes it really, really cool and interesting.
SPEAKER_00So your back-end structured you know, query language, uh they're all the tables and all the data organized in a certain fashion, so you can present it to a dashboard in a user-friendly environment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and it's great. I mean, that that's such a huge, in my opinion, huge advancement. Um, you know, you can be dazzled by charts and graphs and things of that nature, but you can also you're you're gathering information off of that.
SPEAKER_00is you know uh just looking at characters on on a page or something so um how about uh you you mentioned about Oracle and Oracle is the is the um system that we use in the county for yeah for our financials and procurement and uh budgeting um i it's it's a pretty big system uh for yeah pretty big complicated system so we have a couple of specialized folks that uh that take care of that now you think you know we uh Oracle has been in house you know for for for quite a few years I don't know ten years or so maybe even longer um but again even with that technology we start looking and I'll get into it later you know moving different programs to the cloud taking it out of taking it out of our hands on on premise with us and moving it to the cloud but we're not there yet don't I don't want anybody watching this you know on my Oracle team being like oh my God what did they just say there are some advantages obviously I think um uh you know it has to be done at the right time and it and it has to be methodically done in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um I think some of the things that I know in in my business um that we looked at was you know then by moving it from a physical server for us uh to the cloud um you know the only concern was will you always have connectivity that you need right that's where your network engineers come in John there you go right and and since we didn't have one and I was that role and didn't really understand it very well right yeah so we did move it to to the cloud and I thought well you know that they're gonna protect the data they'll have to have the ability to protect that data. Sure. And of course you know you go through firewalls and sonic walls and all the other things. But it it's it's interesting because it was a for me it was a little bit of a struggle because I was looking at it going, yeah, but I don't have a server right here. I can't touch it. Well you don't need to touch it you just need access to it. Sure. And we can protect it and we're protecting it so if you had a loss so I I can see where the natural progression is to to to go that way but then you do have to give some things up right and that's the the balance.
SPEAKER_00So if you look at an enterprise like us or really any enterprise um out there larger scale then that's been in existence for a while you're typically going to have um infrastructure in internally um and possibly you're looking at moving more things toward the cloud. So I like to compare it to it so we what we call on premise. When it's when it's when it's here at the county on our servers you know the ones you can see right you know and and touch and that sort of thing it it's like it's it's like cooking at home if if if you're eating every meal at home. So you're eating every meal at home you got to make sure you have the the the stove you got to make sure you have the pots and pans you got to make sure you have the fridge you got to make sure you had the restaurant you got to make sure you have the ingredients you you you have all that you have all that control right where in the cloud it's more like going out to a restaurant well you can scale now I can get well I don't I'm not limited to what right what what I have here in my fridge I can get whatever's on their menu and they're right they're taking care of the stove right I got the some guys or or woman in the back cooking up that stuff for me right like I don't have to worry about that aspect to it. I just have to worry about the creativity and and the cost comes to play because then you it's more of a subscription base. You pay for that you know um yeah that aspect of it.
SPEAKER_01Well it it's it's interesting and I know it's I know it's something that the county's looking at but I I know that with your leadership you're gonna you're gonna shepherd that as as it seems to be the right time and the right fit.
SPEAKER_00And we and we're already there with some things like we already have programs that are are are strictly cloud based. Whenever we're looking at something new we're considering that is does it make sense to be on premise or it does it make sense to be in the cloud. These are decisions you have to have to make at this level and uh you know like I said we're already there and then you got to figure out hey look um if you had a computer you know you it's got a life cycle five years we replace every five years right so so we know in five years that's done. Well you got to think the same way with programs. So when when you put that in place what is that program's life cycle where you're gonna have to refresh it or get something new. So if you're as you're getting closer on the life cycle you're looking okay do we refresh that in-house or do we start looking at uh putting it out in the cloud?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well I'm I'm gonna tell you it's hard to believe that we are like running out of time already. I'm serious we'll have to touch to get started.
SPEAKER_00I hope I didn't bore anybody to do that no no not at all.
SPEAKER_01But I at this time is there is there anything that that you've got any projects coming up you want to share with the viewers or anything do I have?
SPEAKER_00I would say a minute or so to that it yeah AI AI is AI is the big thing. That's what you're gonna be uh hearing a lot about and we at the county uh you know we we we we might not be on the bleeding edge but we're certainly not gonna let all the advantages of that pass us by and uh protect ourselves at the same time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah well and I and I know under your leadership it'll be looked at very uh very well and with a lot of scrutiny and and I know that you're looking out for the the benefits of the of the taxpayer uh and so you know that we do appreciate you know and you're right it it's a big topic I'll have to have you back because I'd love to be back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah we're we we were just kind of scratched on the top you know I get talking and then you know next half hour passes just like that.
SPEAKER_01Well I'll tell you the the the most important thing is hopefully the viewers were able to to learn a little bit more about the county and and the information systems within the county and and we'll keep them in suspense uh till the next time right for the next time to see what's happening.
SPEAKER_00Um uh just real quick um is there uh any presence on the county uh website for IS or are you kind of behind the scenes we're we're behind the scenes we don't directly support uh constituents we help other departments that do that so we don't have um a presence externally um that the public would come and see and say okay this is your ISO it also decreases our attack surface too so you know you don't you don't know who my network engineer is so you're not trying to hit him and attack his account.
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. And then I guess the other piece of that is you guys are kind of serve as the webmaster anyway kind of behind we we do we we we work uh with the with our web company.
SPEAKER_00Um one thing on that we're we are looking at uh there's a lot of information on our website we're work we're kicking the tires on uh on a chat bot out there to make it easier for uh the public to be able to find stuff when they log on do you have any openings in IS right now not at the moment we're actually uh we're we're sitting in pretty good shape but we do have a bit of uh you know turnover whether that's through attrition or you know people moving into different positions or retiring or what have you so keep your eyes peeled on the unemployment website you know and sounds good to open up we're all looking for great people.
SPEAKER_01All right well Tim it was a pleasure I'm gonna take a minute and just uh get back in front of the viewers just to remind the viewers that uh about uh uncashed checks. Uh the you might have received a county check uh you thought you would just kind of make a personal donation by not cashing it we're asking that uh yeah we would like to see you cash it uh up on the screen is is how to reclaim uh any money that the county might be holding that is your money. So if you click on uh the the years you can scan through if you see your name on the screen you'll be able to see how to reclaim that money. We want to make sure that uh you get the money back that's yours and uh and so if you take a couple minutes at some point and notice that uh please uh reach out to the controller's office. Um and really I want to thank the viewers for tuning in again for another episode of County Connections. Uh until next time thank you.